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	<title>Comments on: Honduras at the Tipping Point?</title>
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	<description>Real life in Guatemala</description>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://guateliving.com/2009/07/honduras-at-the-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-742</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 02:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guateliving.com/?p=1298#comment-742</guid>
		<description>An angry Twitter user just sent &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.transdoc.com.gt/interna.php?id=10056#4&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this &lt;/a&gt;to me.  It appears Guatemala lost $30 million USD by shutting down the border (for two days) with Honduras.  Very smart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An angry Twitter user just sent <a href="http://www.transdoc.com.gt/interna.php?id=10056#4" rel="nofollow">this </a>to me.  It appears Guatemala lost $30 million USD by shutting down the border (for two days) with Honduras.  Very smart.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Blodgett</title>
		<link>http://guateliving.com/2009/07/honduras-at-the-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-741</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Blodgett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 02:01:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guateliving.com/?p=1298#comment-741</guid>
		<description>And Rudy--I looked at the pictures you linked.  They show a big crowd at the airport on Sunday, but don&#039;t really speak to the issue of whether the expulsion of Zelaya was a &#039;coup&#039; or not.  (My Honduran-born wife says a lot of these pro-Mel demonstrators are being paid--250 Lempiras a day--by Venezuelan and Nicaraguan &#039;community organizers.&#039;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Rudy&#8211;I looked at the pictures you linked.  They show a big crowd at the airport on Sunday, but don&#8217;t really speak to the issue of whether the expulsion of Zelaya was a &#8216;coup&#8217; or not.  (My Honduran-born wife says a lot of these pro-Mel demonstrators are being paid&#8211;250 Lempiras a day&#8211;by Venezuelan and Nicaraguan &#8216;community organizers.&#8217;)</p>
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		<title>By: ONE-ZERO</title>
		<link>http://guateliving.com/2009/07/honduras-at-the-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-740</link>
		<dc:creator>ONE-ZERO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 01:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guateliving.com/?p=1298#comment-740</guid>
		<description>In actuality I hate to see the pendulum swing this way in LATAM. I cut my teeth during 1980s in the insurgencies in El Sal (FMLN), Nicaragua (FSLN), Guate (FAR/ORPA), and (to a smaller extent) the Darien border area (FARC/NT). 
Such an incredible waste and yet another testament to man&#039;s inability to learn from mistakes of the past. As long as pervasive ignorance rules the day, we will see these cyclical resurgences of leftist despots - the associated media hype, posturing, etc is almost boring in its predictability. Unfortunately real people pay the price during these periods and find their countries set back even further from enjoying realized potential.
Call it a coup, or whatever you want...just looks like someone was paying attention to the current situation and thought they might try to forgo some asspain and bloodshed by addressing a problem early - get the cancer (Zelaya) while it&#039;s small, beats the treatment required once it entrenches and spreads (a la Chavez, Ortega, et al).

These countries deserve better.

Vaya con Dios.
1-0</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In actuality I hate to see the pendulum swing this way in LATAM. I cut my teeth during 1980s in the insurgencies in El Sal (FMLN), Nicaragua (FSLN), Guate (FAR/ORPA), and (to a smaller extent) the Darien border area (FARC/NT).<br />
Such an incredible waste and yet another testament to man&#8217;s inability to learn from mistakes of the past. As long as pervasive ignorance rules the day, we will see these cyclical resurgences of leftist despots &#8211; the associated media hype, posturing, etc is almost boring in its predictability. Unfortunately real people pay the price during these periods and find their countries set back even further from enjoying realized potential.<br />
Call it a coup, or whatever you want&#8230;just looks like someone was paying attention to the current situation and thought they might try to forgo some asspain and bloodshed by addressing a problem early &#8211; get the cancer (Zelaya) while it&#8217;s small, beats the treatment required once it entrenches and spreads (a la Chavez, Ortega, et al).</p>
<p>These countries deserve better.</p>
<p>Vaya con Dios.<br />
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		<title>By: Don Blodgett</title>
		<link>http://guateliving.com/2009/07/honduras-at-the-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-739</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Blodgett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 01:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guateliving.com/?p=1298#comment-739</guid>
		<description>You ask if anyone has seen a single media outlet not supporting Zelaya.  Here is a surprising (to me) link to something not supportive of Mel that seems to be a collaborative effort involving NPR and The New Republic, two outlets that are usually reliably leftish.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106085412

I&#039;d also call your attention to National Review, Christian Science Monitor, Wall Street Journal, Investor&#039;s Business Daily, and I&#039;m sure there are more.

From the context of Jamey&#039;s comment about media support for the new gov&#039;t, though, I think he may be referring to Honduran media like La Prensa, La Tribuna, El Heraldo--altho CNN Espanol can hardly has escaped his notice.

(Univision online poll is running 69-31 in favor of the new govt, by the way.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You ask if anyone has seen a single media outlet not supporting Zelaya.  Here is a surprising (to me) link to something not supportive of Mel that seems to be a collaborative effort involving NPR and The New Republic, two outlets that are usually reliably leftish.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106085412" rel="nofollow">http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106085412</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;d also call your attention to National Review, Christian Science Monitor, Wall Street Journal, Investor&#8217;s Business Daily, and I&#8217;m sure there are more.</p>
<p>From the context of Jamey&#8217;s comment about media support for the new gov&#8217;t, though, I think he may be referring to Honduran media like La Prensa, La Tribuna, El Heraldo&#8211;altho CNN Espanol can hardly has escaped his notice.</p>
<p>(Univision online poll is running 69-31 in favor of the new govt, by the way.)</p>
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		<title>By: ONE-ZERO</title>
		<link>http://guateliving.com/2009/07/honduras-at-the-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-738</link>
		<dc:creator>ONE-ZERO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 01:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guateliving.com/?p=1298#comment-738</guid>
		<description>Cristina wrote:&quot;...One thing I´m terrified of is being governed by people who can´t even read and write, led by a bunch of opportunistic leftists that end up living in Europe with all sorts of comforts...&quot;

Hey are you posting from the USA, sounds like Washington DC these days?
;-)
 FMLN, FLSN, ALBA...pura mierda

Viva la revolucion!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cristina wrote:&#8221;&#8230;One thing I´m terrified of is being governed by people who can´t even read and write, led by a bunch of opportunistic leftists that end up living in Europe with all sorts of comforts&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Hey are you posting from the USA, sounds like Washington DC these days?<br />
 <img src='http://guateliving.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
 FMLN, FLSN, ALBA&#8230;pura mierda</p>
<p>Viva la revolucion!<br />
1-0</p>
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		<title>By: Cristina</title>
		<link>http://guateliving.com/2009/07/honduras-at-the-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-736</link>
		<dc:creator>Cristina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 23:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guateliving.com/?p=1298#comment-736</guid>
		<description>People didn´t have to die.  When you go to a demonstration, you know the risks you are taking. 
Zelaya´s supporters move to take control of the airport was pretty stupid.  How do you defend a property the size of an airport?  You can´t have the whole perimeter flanked by soldiers.  Once there was tear gas, these people should´ve gotten out of there.
One thing I´m terrified of is being governed by people who can´t even read and write, led by a bunch of opportunistic leftists that end up living in Europe with all sorts of comforts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People didn´t have to die.  When you go to a demonstration, you know the risks you are taking.<br />
Zelaya´s supporters move to take control of the airport was pretty stupid.  How do you defend a property the size of an airport?  You can´t have the whole perimeter flanked by soldiers.  Once there was tear gas, these people should´ve gotten out of there.<br />
One thing I´m terrified of is being governed by people who can´t even read and write, led by a bunch of opportunistic leftists that end up living in Europe with all sorts of comforts.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://guateliving.com/2009/07/honduras-at-the-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-733</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guateliving.com/?p=1298#comment-733</guid>
		<description>Korey,

I&#039;m not under any allusions about any of the governments in the region.  I try to maintain an objective opinion while learning, and I hope that my general attitude about governments is proven wrong.  To date (I&#039;ve been studying the region since 1993), I&#039;ve yet to be wrong.  

The Guatemalans I spoke with this weekend were, to a man, concerned not by the new government but about what the &#039;Communistas&#039; were going to do in retaliation.  They insisted, as I have come to believe, that the people are glad to have Zelaya gone, were frightened by his abuse of power, and want a return to democracy (no doubt a sentiment shared by Venezuelans).  This &#039;coup&#039; seems to be unlike any other in recent memory in that all sides of the government were in favor of the action, there have been no brutal acts by the armed forces, and things have been peaceful.  

I would have agreed with you before regarding the preference over an arrest and trial, and certainly that would be better on paper.  However, I suspect the leadership in Honduras knew that Zelaya&#039;s people in Tegucigalpa, Caracas and Havana (and no doubt Moscow), would have preferred such a development as a pretext for a foreign military intervention which would have been launched to free him and topple the government.  Lots of people would have been killed who &#039;resisted&#039;, and Zelaya would be able to purge the government of dissenters.  (This is all right out of the old Soviet textbook, by the way).

As it is, it seems to me a model of peaceful change of government when an executive attempts to rule extra-constitutionally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Korey,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not under any allusions about any of the governments in the region.  I try to maintain an objective opinion while learning, and I hope that my general attitude about governments is proven wrong.  To date (I&#8217;ve been studying the region since 1993), I&#8217;ve yet to be wrong.  </p>
<p>The Guatemalans I spoke with this weekend were, to a man, concerned not by the new government but about what the &#8216;Communistas&#8217; were going to do in retaliation.  They insisted, as I have come to believe, that the people are glad to have Zelaya gone, were frightened by his abuse of power, and want a return to democracy (no doubt a sentiment shared by Venezuelans).  This &#8216;coup&#8217; seems to be unlike any other in recent memory in that all sides of the government were in favor of the action, there have been no brutal acts by the armed forces, and things have been peaceful.  </p>
<p>I would have agreed with you before regarding the preference over an arrest and trial, and certainly that would be better on paper.  However, I suspect the leadership in Honduras knew that Zelaya&#8217;s people in Tegucigalpa, Caracas and Havana (and no doubt Moscow), would have preferred such a development as a pretext for a foreign military intervention which would have been launched to free him and topple the government.  Lots of people would have been killed who &#8216;resisted&#8217;, and Zelaya would be able to purge the government of dissenters.  (This is all right out of the old Soviet textbook, by the way).</p>
<p>As it is, it seems to me a model of peaceful change of government when an executive attempts to rule extra-constitutionally.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://guateliving.com/2009/07/honduras-at-the-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-732</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guateliving.com/?p=1298#comment-732</guid>
		<description>Rudy, I&#039;ve already updated this post to reflect my thoughts on Jamie&#039;s commentary.  I find his sentiment to mirror that reflected by the other leftists throughout the region (which is why I refer to them as &#039;talking points&#039;, and disingenuous is the most flattering I can come up with.

If Zelaya were right of center and was replaced by a left of center politician, Obama/Chavez/Castro would be calling it a peaceful revolution by the people which all other governments must respect.  Since Zelaya is a protege of the Chavez et al, it is a &#039;coup&#039;, and the cabal threatens invasion.  

If I were President I&#039;d fly the 10th Mountain division to Tegucigalpa for &quot;combined forces training&quot;, and maybe put a battleship and destroyer off the coast.  Communists only understand force, and it would send a message that the march across Latin America has come to an end (all in humble Honduras; who would have guessed?).  

I bet the democrats in Venezuela and elsewhere are looking to the developments in Honduras and plotting their next move.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rudy, I&#8217;ve already updated this post to reflect my thoughts on Jamie&#8217;s commentary.  I find his sentiment to mirror that reflected by the other leftists throughout the region (which is why I refer to them as &#8216;talking points&#8217;, and disingenuous is the most flattering I can come up with.</p>
<p>If Zelaya were right of center and was replaced by a left of center politician, Obama/Chavez/Castro would be calling it a peaceful revolution by the people which all other governments must respect.  Since Zelaya is a protege of the Chavez et al, it is a &#8216;coup&#8217;, and the cabal threatens invasion.  </p>
<p>If I were President I&#8217;d fly the 10th Mountain division to Tegucigalpa for &#8220;combined forces training&#8221;, and maybe put a battleship and destroyer off the coast.  Communists only understand force, and it would send a message that the march across Latin America has come to an end (all in humble Honduras; who would have guessed?).  </p>
<p>I bet the democrats in Venezuela and elsewhere are looking to the developments in Honduras and plotting their next move.</p>
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		<title>By: korey</title>
		<link>http://guateliving.com/2009/07/honduras-at-the-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-731</link>
		<dc:creator>korey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guateliving.com/?p=1298#comment-731</guid>
		<description>This sounds like a wikipedia entry regarding Hugo Chavez but has very little to do with the actual situation on the ground in Honduras.

They&#039;re all bad guys and the new de facto bosses are most likely going to be worse than Zelaya. You don&#039;t mention the rampant corruption throughout the gov&#039;t. of one of the poorest, small countries in L.A.,the abject poverty most Hondurans find themselves in, and the real golden egg in this fairy tale which is the narco money and who controls it. (don&#039;t get me started on conspiracy theories).

This was a coup to get things back to the old-boy networks &quot;status quo&quot;. If you have any doubts watch for the coming excuse of why they can&#039;t have the scheduled elections in November. &quot;The situation is too unstable, so we&#039;ll stay in control.&quot;
They don&#039;t want to go anywhere. This is only beginning and I hope the region is spared the potential world of hurt the Hondurans will now have to put up with for no one knows how long.

Mark, I gather from your writing that you have not been around here for very long and I know you can&#039;t speak the language but there is a reason why the Guatemalans you talked to this weekend were concerned. They&#039;ve been down this road too many times to want to see it again. 

Coups are bad, people die and disappear and there is nobody to answer for the actions taken because no one is legitimately in control. It is a scary place to be and a road Guatemala (and the region) definitely thought they had left behind. God save us from the defenders of the Honduran constitution, (who, by the way, have suspended same).

I&#039;ve learned from a slew of bad presidents starting in the 80&#039;s that you let these guys run their course and go away, so far (in Guate)there has been 1 good one and 5 bad ones since I&#039;ve lived here. Some much worse than others. 

Zelaya wasn&#039;t going to carry his &quot;encuesta&quot; and even if he did, so what. He&#039;s not Chavez and has a completely different situation on his hands. The reason Micheletti grabbed power is because he moved from third  to second in line, following the vice presidents resignation to run for pres in November (having beaten Micheletti in the primary, no sour grapes there, I&#039;m sure). 

Zelaya should have been allowed to run his course or arrested and by the police forces and tried. Not what happened on Sunday morning.
What happens next causes a great deal of fear in everyone with a memory.

So hey, thanks Honduras for a trip back to the only part of the 80&#039;s I didn&#039;t enjoy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sounds like a wikipedia entry regarding Hugo Chavez but has very little to do with the actual situation on the ground in Honduras.</p>
<p>They&#8217;re all bad guys and the new de facto bosses are most likely going to be worse than Zelaya. You don&#8217;t mention the rampant corruption throughout the gov&#8217;t. of one of the poorest, small countries in L.A.,the abject poverty most Hondurans find themselves in, and the real golden egg in this fairy tale which is the narco money and who controls it. (don&#8217;t get me started on conspiracy theories).</p>
<p>This was a coup to get things back to the old-boy networks &#8220;status quo&#8221;. If you have any doubts watch for the coming excuse of why they can&#8217;t have the scheduled elections in November. &#8220;The situation is too unstable, so we&#8217;ll stay in control.&#8221;<br />
They don&#8217;t want to go anywhere. This is only beginning and I hope the region is spared the potential world of hurt the Hondurans will now have to put up with for no one knows how long.</p>
<p>Mark, I gather from your writing that you have not been around here for very long and I know you can&#8217;t speak the language but there is a reason why the Guatemalans you talked to this weekend were concerned. They&#8217;ve been down this road too many times to want to see it again. </p>
<p>Coups are bad, people die and disappear and there is nobody to answer for the actions taken because no one is legitimately in control. It is a scary place to be and a road Guatemala (and the region) definitely thought they had left behind. God save us from the defenders of the Honduran constitution, (who, by the way, have suspended same).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve learned from a slew of bad presidents starting in the 80&#8217;s that you let these guys run their course and go away, so far (in Guate)there has been 1 good one and 5 bad ones since I&#8217;ve lived here. Some much worse than others. </p>
<p>Zelaya wasn&#8217;t going to carry his &#8220;encuesta&#8221; and even if he did, so what. He&#8217;s not Chavez and has a completely different situation on his hands. The reason Micheletti grabbed power is because he moved from third  to second in line, following the vice presidents resignation to run for pres in November (having beaten Micheletti in the primary, no sour grapes there, I&#8217;m sure). </p>
<p>Zelaya should have been allowed to run his course or arrested and by the police forces and tried. Not what happened on Sunday morning.<br />
What happens next causes a great deal of fear in everyone with a memory.</p>
<p>So hey, thanks Honduras for a trip back to the only part of the 80&#8217;s I didn&#8217;t enjoy.</p>
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		<title>By: Rudy</title>
		<link>http://guateliving.com/2009/07/honduras-at-the-tipping-point/comment-page-1/#comment-730</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 18:43:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guateliving.com/?p=1298#comment-730</guid>
		<description>Mark, by the way, here&#039;s another entry in English from James Rodriguez. Check it out!

http://mimundo-jamesrodriguez.blogspot.com/2009/07/mel-our-friend-people-are-with-you.html

What do you think now... do you still think it was disingenuous  to call it a coup?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, by the way, here&#8217;s another entry in English from James Rodriguez. Check it out!</p>
<p><a href="http://mimundo-jamesrodriguez.blogspot.com/2009/07/mel-our-friend-people-are-with-you.html" rel="nofollow">http://mimundo-jamesrodriguez.blogspot.com/2009/07/mel-our-friend-people-are-with-you.html</a></p>
<p>What do you think now&#8230; do you still think it was disingenuous  to call it a coup?</p>
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