Maid #4 Plays Her Hand
ByReaders may recall that Maid #4 started giving us some trouble recently, first by referring to my wife in the diminutive, as though she were her daughter, and then by showing her less and less respect to the point where she would not look at her directly when the Wife was speaking to her and would not stop doing whatever she was engaged in to receive instructions.
When we moved, Maid #5 stayed with the old house, so she is thankfully out of the picture, and through Marina and Genesis we found a wonderful new girl, so we have Maid #6 working well. More on that later.
A few days after I fired Maid #4, I got a call from a friend who said, “There is a woman here who says she used to work for you and you owe her some money, what should I tell her?” Welcome to a very small world known as Antigua, dear readers. It turns out Maid #4 had gone to this friend’s workplace (she met him once at my house), and explained that I owed her severance money, bona catorce and her Christmas bonus.
Now, Maid #4 worked for us for about 6 months. The original (verbal) agreement was that she would earn 800Q a month for four hours a day, six days a week. That quickly turned into three hours a day as she arrived late and left early, and she invariably missed a few days of work each month, but since she was getting the work done and was mostly reliable, we let it go. I considered it a raise after her probationary period, and felt good that I was being a generous employer.
Over the months I loaned her hundreds of Q, and always paid her even when she didn’t show up for work. We also fed her dinner every night, which she managed to stretch to over 30 minutes and usually took a healthy bag of leftovers home. Big mistake. So maybe it was like 2.5 hours a day, almost every day.
So I met with some friends and got their input, and the consensus was that at most I would owe her 1/2 month’s pay for severance and 1/2 month’s pay for bona catorce, but not the Christmas bonus since she didn’t work over Christmas. That sounded fair to me so I proposed that I pay her the equivalent of one month’s pay less the money I had loaned her.
My friend Santiago, who you all will remember has frequently provided insight and great advice on matters of dealing with the domestic help, advised me to get a contract drawn up so I could protect myself. I went to the lawyer, explained my needs, and he agreed to draw up the letter, but didn’t want to be involved directly as it might cause the Maid to ‘up the ante’ on her side. He seemed overly anxious that she might go to the government and complain about me.
He then explained that the way some people interpret the law, the minimum wage is 1,000Q per month, whether the person works one hour per month or 10 hours per day. So while I thought I was being generous in paying her and feeding her, if she was vindictive she might be able to drag me through the government and extort a lot of money from me. (Now readers should understand why US firms outsource to India and China and not Guatemala).
Well, I naively thought this couldn’t possibly be the case, after all, I had always been kind to this woman, paying her when she didn’t show up, feeding her a full meal for a 3 hour shift, advancing her money, buying her US quarters, etc. Little did I really know, for she began calling daily asking for her money and told me that she had consulted an accountant (I later learned the accountant in question is her son), who said that I owed her 2,000Q.
Now, before I moved here a year ago, a $250 bribe to make a problem go away would have been a no-brainer. It’s just a cost of doing business. The problem is, that here this is a daily kind of problem. Everyone wants money, and pretty soon word gets out that you’re an easy target. Plus, we’re trying to live on a lot less, so we can live this life in paradise indefinitely.
So, I immediately decided I wasn’t going to pay the extortion. None of my long-time Antigua resident acquaintances thought 2,000Q was a fair severance for six months of part time work. That means we’re going to play hard ball.
Stay tuned…
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19 Comments
November 16th, 2009 at 10:59 am
[...] This post was Twitted by guateliving [...]
November 16th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
Mark, I have an excellent accountant in Guatemala City that is very knowledgeable about labor laws. If you need his info just let me know. This accountant has gone with me when I have been dragged into the work inspection. The problem with the work inspectors is that they make their own rules. We moved from the Department of Sacatepequez to the Department Chimaltenango and I found out the all the contracts we had signed in Antigua, all the agreements with our employees were not any good in Chimaltenango. Although all these work inspectors report to the main office in Guatemala City. That is when I brought in my lawyer. I can't say it enough times, whether you hire one person or 20, check out the labor laws (and yes there are labor law manuals), make sure you are paying what the law states and know that ANYTHING extra you give, clothes, time off, food, travel, is your generosity and not taken into account as far as pay.
Maid#4 story sounds all to familiar to me. When you hire help, whether in your home, building your house, driving, whatever the job is know the labor laws specific to their job. Domestic help has different labor laws from agricultural workers. Have a contract and make sure the person signs it and you have it witnessed by someone outside of your family because the chance are good that the signature will be a thumbprint. Visit the inspeccion de trabajo in Antigua and ask them your questions, err on their side, it will cause you less heartache. Don't get personally involved with your employees. This is tough, especially if they are caring for your children, to do but I have learned the hard way that you will be taken advantage, you will not be respected, you will not be appreciated and you will be angry. If you want to help someone out, don't help out your employees, give instead to one of the NGOs that you trust.
November 16th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
You are absolutely correct. The labor laws of Guatemala are one of the main reasons that any international company with experience either skipped Guatemala all together, or is leaving. The socialists have legislated the people of Guatemala out of thousands of good jobs by trying to take advantage of capitalist jobs that don't even exist. They should have at least let the investors put their money and improvements in the country before trying to screw them.
As for your decision as to how to handle your problem with Maid #4, let me remind you that this is their country and these are their laws, their courts, and their judges. One gringo we know is a very strong willed person who has been in Guatemala for a number of years, owns quite a bit of property and employs quite a few Guatemalans. He let one long time employee go about three years ago. Well the employee went to an attorney who helped him demand more severance pay. The gringo refused on moral grounds, so he was taken to court. The gringo hired his own attorney and fought the ex-employee's demands for a couple of years. After spending more in legal fees than the ex-employee had originally asked for, the gringo has now given up and is willing to pay whatever the courts say. So far I haven't heard what the final judgment against him was, but I know who won this fight.
November 16th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
Don't talk to any lawyers in Antigua; all panzas verdes stick together. I'd like to hear the maid's point of view. She is very vindictive. Aqui hay un gallo tapado.
November 16th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
elgordo, I can't speak about all lawyers in Antigua but I will speak about our children's home lawyer, that I have worked many years with. This man is one of the most honorable, kind and hard working people I know. He has fought, with me, to advocate for kids and done this work pro bono. These kids would not have had a chance had our lawyer not fought for them and we could not have afforded to hire a lawyer to fight the fight. I have spent countless hours learning Guatemalan law from him, that information has proved to be invaluable to me. I could go on and on about this lawyer. He is fair, cares about Guatemala, fights for children's rights and he was born and raised in Antigua. I would highly recommend this man.
November 16th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
you really look to me like a expoiler, than a kind person, you might think that is enuough because everyone pays that for the completely day, but it is not fair.
you think that a completely family can live with that 800 quetzales? obviusly not, you have your house clean, your meals done and a lot more than you will receive for the same price back in the u.s.
or you can afford that? you might pay 800 a week for the same.
but, thats wy youre here, earning well, living well and paying nothing.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
Nancy,
Good advice for Mark! Now, as in any country in the world, a lawyer, by definition, is not honorable.
elgordo,
Although I agree that the former maid is being vindictive and, obviously, trying to abuse the system, I'm sorry to tell you that Mark's former maid is not panza verde. Mark will confirm that for you.
Also, Guatemala is a class divided society and lawyers will only take sides when being paid, and well.
November 16th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Mark,
I believe you're being scammed by maid #4, but don't let the best of you come out when venting. Follow the golden rule: Do not crap where you eat.
Also, if you didn't have a written contract, Labor Law in Guatemala acknowledges verbal contracts:
http://www.mintrabajo.gob.gt/empleadores/contrato...
Artículo 27. El contrato individual de trabajo puede ser verbal cuando se refiera:
b) Al servicio doméstico.
My two cents for your' ever constant future in Guatemala:
1. Use good referral services, either from friends or business owners you trust
2. Since this is going to be domestic work, unwritten gender laws in Guatemala demand that the business be managed by the wife.
3. Draw a contract, verify the Cedula or DPI (this is how it looks in case you haven't seen one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BTSIAuPkwk). Request a copy of the ID, whichever is going to be used and have the contract signed at a friend's house, you'll need an eyewitness. It doesn't have to be at a lawyer's office, but the contract must be notarized.
Make sure to NOT give loans, if it is a real emergency, have her sign a "recibo" for whatever amount of money and with the agreement that it will be taken off the next pay check.
Lack of education is how maids have misconceptions regarding their working environment. If you are educated and better prepared, you have to be the better person.
I can see Mark publishing the ISO of Maid Work in Guatemala pretty soon.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:50 pm
duendemaya: I have really had my share of sleezy, scumbag lawyers in Guatemala. I never had the "pleasure" of dealing with lawyers in the States. And you are right, lawyers get paid to represent their clients and not to do the "right thing" and that is anywhere in the world.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
Great advice duendemaya. This is one post to save for anyone who will be moving to Guatemala and hiring anyone to do anything here.
I can't wait for Mark to write the handbook on Maid Work in Guatemala! Promise me, Mark, that I can add my two cents.
November 17th, 2009 at 1:25 am
nictewalls,
Once you have made enough money that you hire 2-3 of your fellow countrymen, or start a business that employs them, I would then enjoy discussing economic theory with you.
November 17th, 2009 at 4:49 am
MORE MAID STORIES PLEASE by far these are the best!!!!!
November 17th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Hey nictewalls, by "expoiler" are you trying to say "exploiter"? Parece que sos uno de los muchos resentidos, mentirosos y delicaditos de Guate. I agree that 800 quetzales is not enough to live on, however in most countries everyone in the family goes out to work and contributes to the family income. In this case Maid #4 is the exploiter. Esta familia probablemente tiene como 6 personas que pueden trabajar, pero como son tan huevones, solo mandan a trabajar a la mamá. With few exceptions, the workers in Guate are not even worth the low money they are paid so that´s why the country has such draconian labor laws which were probably brought about by holding lynching parties for the legislators or blocking all the main highways in the country ´till they got their way.
November 17th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
You better know all the laws on this before getting anymore maids. Also you should be very sure right from the start that the maid knows just what is to be expected. Arrive on time stay till proper time. No lending of funds ever . Keep stuff locked up or it will walk off. You dont need to hire a maid just to end up wasting time and money in some lawyers office. Know the law and avoid future maid problems.
November 18th, 2009 at 12:52 am
Next time you hire a maid, as soon as she starts arriving late, being irrespectful, or in general not holding up her end of the contract, tell her she needs to shape up or leave. And then, follow through if she doesn't change. This will make it perfectly clear to the other maids or other help that there is no messing with you. Once again, have your wife manage all interactions with the maids. Guatemalan men don't bother with the help, because it takes power away from the wife, and you need to be seen as a person of so much authority that no one will want to mess with you.
November 18th, 2009 at 12:52 am
As for how much you pay her, it's all a matter of supply and demand. You pay the market price. If you pay less than that, she'll find somewhere else to work, and paying anything more will make them think they can take advantage of you.
I don't agree with Guatemalan labor laws. They hurt the majority of workers more than they help them. I for one, would rather work for a low salary than have no money at all. Whenever there's a raise in the minimum wage, many jobs are cut and it's a Russian roulette, since you never know when it'll be you who has to leave.
November 18th, 2009 at 1:57 am
I agree with you Cristina that the labor laws in Guatemala do harm employees. I battled with IGGS for awhile over us being a self insured "company" and not have to pay into IGGS for health care. No way. The labor laws create conflict and then getting paid to work 14 months when one only works 12 is silly. I would much rather pay my employees more and forget the two months of free salary. I think it sets people up to become dependent. And then what about the law that states if you quit your job you lose the month's salary for every year you have worked for the employer but if you are fired then you are eligible for the money. I have had to pay people who have stolen from the children's home, who should have gone to jail, and instead I had to pay them a month's salary for every year they worked for me. That is why when I go to la Inspeccion de Trabajo I will have my lawyer and my accountant with me. And you are right, when the minimum wage goes up we always have to lay people off.
November 18th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Q&Q,
Beautifully put.
November 19th, 2009 at 9:06 am
[...] last chapter in this little drama was Maid #4 asking for 2,000Q as severance pay for her 3 hour a day job that paid 800Q a month. [...]