Update on Maid #4
ByThe last chapter in this little drama was Maid #4 asking for 2,000Q as severance pay for her 3 hour a day job that paid 800Q a month. Readers will remember that I took some steps to determine what the ’spirit of the law’ was. After all, I believe that civil laws are binding on men unless they are opposed to divine law, so no matter how ludicrous it might seem, I try to do the ‘right’ thing when possible. Most of the time.
My lawyer said I owed her 800Q and the consensus among friends was that this was ‘reasonable’. So I offered her the 800Q payment less the 300Q which I had loaned her. Her response was 2000Q.
I actually spent some time thinking about this and my initial inclination was to negotiate, perhaps to offer 1000Q and she if she started working her way down. But when the Wife found out about all this, she was furious. Apparently the anger had been building for all those months, with her being disrespected, the Maid showing up late and leaving early, and always taking a doggie-bag home after dinner. The idea that we would pay anything more than we had to was really offensive to her. In fact, I’m pretty sure I was guilty for a) having let the Maid behave in this way and b) Being willing to pay anything at all.
I apprised Santiago of the updated status and he said, “Don’t budge. If she wants to take you to court it will take her months, she’ll have to hire an attorney, and I’ll go with you so we can give them hell together”. That didn’t sound like my idea of fun, but I figured I would learn something in the process. Most importantly, I knew that Maid #4 needed the money because she was calling daily, sometimes 3-4 times a day, asking where her money was.
To use money as leverage against a poor person is offensive to me on the surface, but I thought I was being reasonable with my offer and willingness to comply. If the attorney had said I owed her 2,000Q, I would have paid. If it was 4,000Q, I would pay. As it is, I held my ground at 800Q.
One of the negotiating secrets I learned doing private equity deals was that you can often times close a deal just by putting the money on the table with the contract. When people see a check for $10 million on the table in front of them and it’s just a signature away, sometimes the details get resolved quickly. In my business we would often work for months, sometimes a year, to get a deal done, only to have one party playing hard to get over some little detail. Cash on the table plus a contract usually wins.
I did that once buying a car too, by taking stacks of $100 bills to the owner’s house and offering an immediate, cash, discounted price. People can’t stand to have money just sitting on the table in front of them and contemplate it walking away.
I phoned Maid #4 and told her I had the document ready for her to sign and the 500Q in cash and that I would meet her. She repeated her demand for 2,000Q but said she would be at the office at 9am the next day. We decided to meet at a friend’s office rather than the attorney’s so she wouldn’t be intimidated by the attorney. I thought it was possible she would show up with an attorney, friend, family member, accountant, or possibly the whole neighborhood, but I was committed only to getting her signature and handing the 500Q, not a renegotiation.
So, the next morning I’m at the office at the appointed time. After 20 minutes she had not arrived, so I left the contract and the money with my friend and said, “If she ever shows up, get a copy of her cedula and her signature before you give her the money”.
Well, later that day I get a call from my friend who says, “The woman is here but she doesn’t want to give us a copy of her cedula. She does want the money”.
That’s an easy one folks, because as we had already learned this woman had four or five different names and had given us different names over the course of the negotiations, so I didn’t want to risk paying 500Q and having her come back with a different name later to ask for more. The lawyer was VERY insistent about this, so much so that I figured it was a point I probably shouldn’t challenge. Apparently she didn’t want to give a copy of her cedula, so I hung up.
In the end she signed, gave us a copy of her cedula and took the money, and I’ve not heard from her since.
Lessons learned:
1. You must have a contract with your employee. The contract should specify their duties, hours, and wages.
2. You’ll need to pay minimum wage (1,000Q) otherwise you’re open to being taken to the labor department. It doesn’t matter that your maid only works 3 hours a week, the law says she’s entitled to minimum wage. Of course, if you’re like the wealthy Guatemalans, just pay her 1,000Q a month and make her work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. Apparently that’s just fine.
3. You’ll need to build their bona catorce, Christmas bonus and severance pay into their paycheck so that you don’t have to worry about doing all that down the road and have it be a big surprise.
4. You must have receipts for every payment you make. The receipt should specify not only that they received the money, but that the money represents all the pay they are entitled to for that pay period. You don’t want it to be your word against hers, because you are a Devil from the North and we all know your word is worthless.
5. Don’t loan money, or at least not beyond the current paycheck. This might be hard if you’re a charitable person, but I’ve learned they will take advantage of you, see you as weak, and otherwise abuse you. I’ve already loaned money to Maid #6 in violation of this rule, but I took it out of the very next paycheck and made sure she understood this couldn’t be a regular thing.
6. If trouble is brewing, get “lawyered up” real quick. Litigation is a business weapon in the states, and you have to look at it the same way here. The other side will have to go through the effort and expense to retain counsel, which drives up the cost for them as well. If your pockets are deeper, you have the advantage, and since your employee has every other advantage on you, you need everything you can get. Time and money are your only self-defense options.
Loading ...
19 Comments
November 19th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
It's the same world over… trying to get money for nothing!!
November 19th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Mark, I should start my own blog about the goings-on of these nit-wits (read: maids/servants/peasants — you name it, I've heard them called everything) that have unfortunately graced our presence in the past 4 years. We have recently acquired maid number 14. My, my how time flies. We actually base much of our memory of things that have taken place here at the B&B on the maid that was working at the time. I'm frustrated beyond belief, but at least this one can read and write and hasn't managed to spill bleach on our rugs/clothes/blankets,sheets, etc.; beat her child half to death; or set the stove and half the kitchen ablaze with her poison concoction she decided to prepare for lunch. Let me know when your maid number "whatever" decides to ask for a raise, work less, demand 3 meals a day and after being told no, walks off with all your jewelry. (You might remember her as the one with the baby.) Then you'll officially become a part of the Guatemalan Family! Good Luck!
November 19th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
Congrats!
I can see the ISO is coming along pretty well.
My comments below:
On item #1: As your future Republican Presidential Candidate would say it: You betcha!
Regarding item #2: Guatemalan people that can afford maids and force them to work 12 hours for 7 days, usually don't have the money to "lawyer up" and do end up paying at the end, call it Karma if you will, but I've seen it happen. Something you still haven't caught up in Guatemala is that "rich" people live off appearances and love to show off (or believe) they are "rich". Abusing the worker will come back and bite you in the ass no matter how much money you have and how many lawyers you hire, especially in Guatemala, you will be retaliated one way or another. The standard Jornada Diurna, which applies for Maids, as far as I know, is 8 hours a day, Monday to Friday, and 4 hours, on Saturday.
On item #3: I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, but if you're saying that you should pay bonuses within the paycheck, I don't recommend you do it, but if you still go ahead and do it, make sure you have the building of the Bono 14, etc., into their paychecks in writing within the contract as well, or else, you'll end up paying at the end…yet again, since it can be taken as part of the salary. Also, once you have a signed and notarized contract, make sure to submit and register it at the Inspección General de Trabajo, you'll be sleeping much more comfortable that way.
On item #4: Besides the receipts or "recibos", you need to keep, by law, " libros de salarios" or Salary Books. Keep records – signed receipts by the employees – of bono 14, bono navideño, holidays, sick time, vacation, and time off paid. Don't leave anything out.
On item #5: Definitely, no loans or salary advances. Especially within the first two months of work where you have the upper hand and you can fire the worker if you deem it necessary, free of legal retaliation. Also, make sure no doggy bags go out or bags of any type go in or out, unless you know what´s inside.
On item #6: My experience has been that retainers with lawyers in Guatemala don't work pretty well. If you keep your workers within legal working conditions, clean records – it's cheaper to retain an accountant that will be doing actual work -, and use common sense, I seriously doubt you'll ever need a lawyer again for labor disputes. Hire a lawyer for specific services, and keep in mind that haggling over a price of any service provided by "the lawyer" can be a fun way to get what you want.
Good luck!
November 19th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
Another lesson: never hire anyone that has different aliases. The only reason I can think of when you might want an alias is when you want to fool somebody. Always ask for a copy of the cedula when you hire someone.
This maid shot herself in the foot. I´m sure by now all your friends know who she is so that none of them will hire her.
November 19th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
We had a person working for my family, as a nanny mostly, from 1937 to the 1980's. We never had any problems. Other employees worked for my family for years with no problems. It's funny though, we called our older employes don or doña, or at least the kids did. We didn't consider them nitwits, and respected them as human beings, who make mistakes out of ignorance, lack of training or education. My mother or grandmother taught many a muchacha how to cook or sent them to school to learn how to read and write. I can honestly say that perhaps all our "maids/servants/peasants" left our service better than they arrived. Just from the tone of your letter, Joe, I venture to guess that your maids are doing all those things on purpose. If you have ungrateful servants you have not become part of the Guatemalan family.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:16 am
Actually we have offered to school the people who have worked for us and their children, encouraged them to speak Mayan languages (whenever there were indigenous employees) especially to our child, have been sweeter than apple pie and offered them as much as 5 times more per month than I guarantee anyone would ever pay a helper, but you know what elgordo, it has never worked out for us, or them. I would love that when they actually left they were better than when they arrived, and us too.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:18 am
Why when I hire them and they tell me they can do the job they never seem to be able to do it? I require American standards for hygeine and cleanliness in my business. This is not something realized by the "Guatemalan Family" as I have yet seen. Besides, my wife works more with them and she IS Guatemalan. She has been having the majority of the problems, and believe me there is no one nicer than my wife. I currently have a nice girl that has been working out fine the past 2 weeks. We will see. I believe there is someone out there who is worthwhile to keep employeed, but I have yet to find them. So you tell me what I am doing wrong?
November 20th, 2009 at 1:19 am
Has to split that up, I think you need to read the bottom part first…
We have even included them on our IRTRA outings in Retaluleu with the family, and not as employees even paying their way. So for me, for now all have been nit'wits who have worked for us. Explain to me why a maid with 3 little children letting them starve so she can buy yet another cell phone (6 in total between her and her husband,) and then when offered a Q500 raise to feed and clothe the kids, she declined saying simply, "I dont want to take the trash out, fill the ice cube tray or make coffee in the morning."
November 20th, 2009 at 1:20 am
duendemaya has excellent points. I really don't recommend building bonuses, vacations and severance into the paycheck. I just had this conversation with a business person in Guatemala, who does do this, but stated it is not "legal" and that the employee can come back after you. EVERYTHING is open to negotiation even with the inspeccion de trabajo because their jobs are conflict resolution. Now if you have ever ended up there we all know they tend to "fan the fire". However, having just freshly stepped out of the inspeccion de trabajo I was told by both inspectors the best deal was to offer a settlement to the employees. I also recommend documenting any problem and having the employee sign the document. For example, late arrivals, not showing up, etc. Businesses do that all the time and when someone works for you and there is a problem it is documented. This documentation will help you if you go to court or the inspeccion de trabajo. I have been insistent about this in the children's home. Also, if you even have a hint that an employee is not going to work out just fire them before their probationary period is up. This will save you lots of heartache.
And lastly, because there has been so much talk about "bad maids" I must say that I have the very best housekeeper anyone could ask for. She has worked for me for 10 plus years and is a delight. There are clear boundaries, and I suspect she is better at keeping than I am, and she does a wonderful job. I trust her with my kids, my dogs and my house. My daughter and I were talking one day about how long Sonia has work with us and then Gaby says, "geez, mom can you imagine how much money you would owe her if she leaves!!!" This coming from Gaby who adores Sonia.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:58 am
I just wanted to add one last "maid" item. When I cam to Guatemala I did not speak Spanish. This gave me the opportunity to watch people, how people interacted and certainly gave me a better idea about Guatemalan culture, although I claim no expertise in Guatemalan culture. Mark, I wonder if part of Maid#4's problem with your wife MAY have stemmed from the fact that you because to "familiar" with her. Casual joking, offering a glass of wine at dinner and all along you are the boss. If you watch how men and women interact you will rarely see "the boss" joke and be casual with employees. Especially when you are a man and the employee is a woman. This makes your wife look bad. It certainly renders her powerless when Maid#4 is so familiar with the husband. Sometimes, it is a good idea to just watch how people interact, at all levels, classes, work situations and it will give you a better idea how to "adjust" your behavior, which will make your life easier. Sadly, none of my employees can go to my husband since I don't have one and they have to deal with me which is a good thing. I have had a good number of male employees, older and younger, and this doesn't seem to be a problem (being a woman) But then again I fire people pretty quickly if I know they won't work out. When an employee first starts you are getting their best so if it isn't good then it will never be.
But do think, Mark, about how you interact with your maids, too familiar means you are interested in them in ways that would make your wife very mad. So Maid#4 was most likely in competition with your wife for your attention. Just let "the wife" handle the maids and always send the maids back to your wife when they come to you.
November 19th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
I agree let the wife deal with the maids. U just sit back and enjoy be treated like the king you are
November 20th, 2009 at 4:20 am
Nancy we've corrected this and Maid #6 works for the Wife. Things are working splendidly thus far. I consider Maids 1-5 to have been OJT and we understand now how it should work.
November 20th, 2009 at 4:21 am
Now you're talking!
November 20th, 2009 at 4:43 am
It's a thin razor one must walk when dealing with domestic help. It's unwise to be too familiar and unwise to be too aloof. I really marvel at my mother's acumen in dealing with her employees. One of the things I have noticed is that my mother meets the maid's family before hiring. My mother insists that the prospective maid's mother is a good, but not foolproof, indication of how honest/hard working the employee will be. Though loved and respected, the employees know that they can and will be replaced if they commit certain types of offenses. Dont' hire women with children unless you are willing to become a charitable organization. By the way, that woman with six phones sounds like an uppity #$%$%. Juntos pero no revueltos is the rule to live by.
November 20th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
sure, I was lossing my time reading you, well, no surprises, that "christians" allways want to be treated as kings, I wonder ¿you REALLY think you are a "good man"? well, remember, Karma is true, all the good deeds carry good vibes, and the band things, well, you will see it.
November 20th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Nicté, as a Guatemalan woman I can tell you that at a certain social level men are treated as kings. In fact, I know many ladies that won´t even say "my husband says, or wants, or likes,etc". They´ll just say "he", almost as if it´s a lack of respect to refer to him in any other way (from their tone of voice, maybe I should´ve capitalized the "He".)
Many women I know are more machistas than any man I´ve met, and they raise their sons according to their beliefs.
Mark, you can fire a person within the first 2 months, that are considered a probationary period, without any problems.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Oh yeah, baby, I’m a REALLY GOOD MAN.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
nictewalls,
Be careful. You are giving us non-Christians a bad name.
December 4th, 2009 at 11:21 am
Huh? 125-year-old maids? Did I miss something?